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[00:26:12] <luna> [xep 156]
[00:26:13] <Kanchil> luna: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods is Standards Track (Draft, 2007-06-12) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0156.html
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[00:27:02] <luna> i'm a little confused with xep 156. it says "The attribute name SHOULD begin with the string "_xmpp-client-" or "_xmpp-server-" and SHOULD be registered as described in the XMPP Registrar Considerations section of this document."
[00:28:20] <luna> it appears to me that there is effectively only one registered alternative connection method - xmpp over bosh. i see two listed here - http://xmpp.org/registrar/alt-connections.html - one of which is deprecated by the other.
[00:29:06] <johnny> ok?
[00:29:25] <johnny> the other alternative is getting data from TXT record instead of SRV iirc
[00:29:28] <johnny> connection parameters
[00:30:00] <luna> however, in xep 156, section 4 - examples, it uses an attribute that doesn't appear to be formally registered. i understand that it's just an example, but it's just a bit contradictory. i was wondering if this was intentional.
[00:31:50] <luna> (the attribute i'm referring to is _xmpp-client-wap)
[00:54:57] <johnny> luna, the examples aren't supposed to even validate
[00:55:05] <johnny> imo they should, but there's no guarantee they do
[00:55:26] <johnny> s/supposed/guaranteed/
[00:55:38] <luna> yeah, i guess that's what i was getting at.
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[04:05:01] <dbanes> anyone got any tips for getting a simple Windows Mobile XMPP client off the ground ASAP?
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[18:45:41] <justin> glad to know i'm safe and sound now, back in good old 1969
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[21:57:14] <luna> i'm having trouble getting straight what some options in openfire actually mean. are such questions topical here?
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[21:59:15] <stpeter> luna: you'll probably have better luck on the openfire forums
[21:59:31] <stpeter> http://community.igniterealtime.org/index.jspa
[21:59:40] <stpeter> sorry, gotta run
[21:59:42] <stpeter> bbl
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[22:09:45] <johnny> luna, openfire hasn't had a good rep really
[22:09:59] <johnny> i tried it because of the admin, but it had so much fail i switched to ejabberd
[22:10:07] <johnny> and then finally to prosody
[22:10:26] <johnny> maybe it's actually being maintained now
[22:10:28] <luna> it's been some time for me - how has prosody been progressing?
[22:10:42] <johnny> better than every other server as far as i can tell :)
[22:10:47] <johnny> or at least better than the other popular ones
[22:11:04] <johnny> it still doesn't have a web admin, but that is in progress
[22:11:28] <luna> i've used openfire for a few years, and overall, i've been happy, but there are a few nuances that are a bit frustrating, and lately, one problem in particular now that's a bit of an issue.
[22:25:26] <hawke> I’ve been quite happy with openfire.
[22:25:42] <hawke> luna: What problem are you running into?
[22:26:30] <luna> i've been reading a bit about bosh/xmpp lately, and figured i'd do some exercises with openfire. it appears openfire has termed bosh "http binding"? is that correct?
[22:26:58] <hawke> Not sure.
[22:27:29] <hawke> I believe so.
[22:28:04] <hawke> The announcement for Openfire 3.7.0 beta says “BOSH (http-bind) xml namespace compliance fix.”
[22:28:15] <hawke> So I assume they refer to the same thing.
[22:29:33] <luna> ah - good call. i think you're probably right, and i guess ultimately i'll find out as part of the exercise. it's just a bit frustrating to have concepts/terms/etc. labelled differently form place to place.
[22:30:12] <luna> this is the page to which i refer : http://oi52.tinypic.com/r7r7lt.jpg
[22:30:38] <justin> bosh was originally named http binding
[22:30:49] <luna> oh, i see.
[22:30:49] <hawke> Usually that happens because a protocol is designed or built before it’s named. I suspect that Openfire implemented it before BOSH was called BOSH.
[22:30:58] <luna> that makes sense.
[22:31:01] <justin> (and you can see this legacy in the httpbind namespace name)
[22:31:39] <luna> what is the httpbind namespace name?
[22:31:57] <hawke> The xml namespace used in BOSH.
[22:31:58] <hawke> http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0124.html
[22:32:03] <hawke> section 6
[22:32:32] <luna> ah, ok. thanks, that's very helpful.
[22:34:16] <luna> so - regarding that openfire admin page in the image - if http binding: enabled/disabled can effectively referred to as bosh: enabled/disabled - what does the script syntax setting actually refer to?
[22:35:31] <hawke> Not sure. Possibly check http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0252.html
[22:35:39] <luna> /me looks.
[22:36:37] <hawke> Specifically, "If, and only if, a client is unable to use the Pure Syntax defined in XEP-0124, then it MAY instead request the use of the Script Syntax defined herein."
[22:36:55] <hawke> I guess it means “allow clients to use XEP-0252”
[22:36:58] <luna> that document looks extremely topical - how did you find it so quickly?
[22:37:16] <hawke> google search for: bosh alternative script syntax
[22:37:32] <hawke> which I found based on results of: openfire "script syntax"
[22:38:32] <luna> ugh. that's painfully obvious. i'm not making smart google searches. thanks for the spoon feeding - you shouldn't have had to.
[22:39:46] <luna> to change the subject a bit, the specific problem i'm having is group chats on other openfire servers.
[22:40:21] <luna> (the bosh stuff was sort of a side note, really - not related, i don't believe, but just something i wanted to be less unfamiliar with)
[22:40:56] <hawke> Gotcha.
[22:41:21] <hawke> I admit, I haven’t used openfire’s groupchat much (read: at all)
[22:41:44] <luna> i'm able to join group chats on the server i'm connected to, and can invite others also connected to the same (or they can join themselves, etc.) and things seem to work as expected.
[22:41:44] <hawke> Not quite true, I tested it out and went “huh, not really much useful to do with that for our purposes”
[22:42:19] <luna> i can appreciate that. it's not really until recently that i've spent much time with that component.
[22:42:46] <luna> but what happens is if someone else, connected to another openfire server, tries to join the room, it doesn't quite work.
[22:43:16] <hawke> I assume that basic messaging between people on the two servers works fine?
[22:43:39] <hawke> and that they have operate different domains?
[22:44:36] <luna> yeah, indeed. basic s2s is just fine (as best as i can tell) - it's used regularly throughout the day, on a daily basis, with no problems to point out.
[22:44:52] <luna> operate different domains? i don't think i understand.
[22:45:09] <hawke> The servers are not trying to be the server for the same domain…
[22:45:24] <hawke> i.e. one is jabber1.example.com and the other is jabber2.example.com
[22:45:25] <luna> oh, gotcha. no, not at all. completely disparate.
[22:45:34] <hawke> but I assume if s2s is working, that’s the case. :-)
[22:46:03] <luna> yeah, two totally separate domains, in every way.
[22:46:26] <hawke> So in what way does it not quite work?
[22:46:38] <luna> actually - in fact, i tried earlier today, to join the igniterealtime chat room, and saw the same problem with their server.
[22:47:09] <hawke> Hmm…I’ve used that server successfully in the past.
[22:47:34] <justin> srv issue at your server?
[22:48:17] <luna> i'm more inclined to blame myself, definitely. let me type a quick synopsis of the symptoms.
[22:48:37] <hawke> Sure.
[22:49:26] <luna> people in the group chat see the person join, in that their name will appear in the list. so to the people who are actually in there and working, it looks like the outside has joined. but the outsider never sees a chat window come up in their client.
[22:50:49] <luna> there is also some (what seems to me) abnormal behavior when using a discovery browser against the server in question. thing seem to be a bit lethargic, and ultimately not all information is revealed.
[22:50:56] <luna> *things
[22:51:44] <hawke> Yeah, browsing is almost certainly weird.
[22:51:56] <hawke> That seems to be more commonly wrong than other stuff.
[22:52:01] <hawke> Have you tried different clients?
[22:52:13] <hawke> do they all show the same no chat window symptoms?
[22:52:44] <luna> my domain is dipswitch.net, if you guys might be willing to look over my srv/dns records. i believe they are appropriate, but i've been wrong before.
[22:53:35] <luna> i've not yet tried another client, no. mostly because it worked when not going between servers. but that's a good idea, of course. any in particular you might recommend?
[22:53:52] <hawke> Pidgin, Psi…
[22:54:13] <justin> i don't think you've got _xmpp-server._tcp.conference.dipswitch.net
[22:54:27] <luna> oh - no, i don't. it's needed?
[22:54:38] <justin> yes. at least that might be why people outside can't join your rooms
[22:54:41] <luna> hmm.
[22:54:47] <justin> i don't know why you can't join igniterealtime's though
[22:54:51] <luna> i'll add it.
[22:55:37] <justin> basically anytime a domain needs to be contacted in xmpp, the srv record for it is looked up. if not found, then the A record is used
[22:55:54] <justin> (and you don't have an A record for conference.dipswitch.net either. not that you need one though)
[22:56:12] <luna> there's a lesson here somewhere… :)
[22:56:15] <luna> (for me)
[22:56:34] <justin> it's a common mistake
[22:56:35] <hawke> You don’t need one if you have SRV records.
[22:56:43] <hawke> But it never hurts to have it anyway.
[22:57:29] <luna> you know, i've always felt that xmpp had sort of an interesting relationship with dns. i consider myself to be pretty well versed in dns, but it's never really seemed straightforward to me when things were needed in dns, in terms of xmpp.
[22:57:34] <luna> yeah, i'll add both.
[22:57:53] <hawke> I think XMPP is the only thing I’ve seen that actually uses SRV records. :-D
[22:58:14] <luna> by far the most prominent.
[22:58:44] <luna> there are a few others - sip can, and zeroconf stuff uses it pretty heavily.
[22:59:32] <justin> yep
[23:00:07] <justin> and xmpp's usage isn't unusual at all. you just have to remember that every domain (subdomain or not) needs its own records
[23:00:55] <luna> for sure. knowing that now will make a huge difference.
[23:03:44] <luna> would you mind checking dns now?
[23:04:10] <justin> looks right
[23:04:23] <luna> great. i'll give it a try.
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[23:08:08] <luna> i think the thing that originally had me perplexed was seeing strings like "conference.dipswitch.net" in the admin interface, and it not really being clear to me if that was something that was intended to directly represent a dns label, or just an internal component to xmpp that happened to follow dns syntax as it's convention, maybe just by chance.
[23:10:19] <justin> yep totally get it
[23:10:45] <luna> probably my fault for not being thorough :)
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[23:31:49] <luna> hey, things seem to be improving :)
[23:32:05] <luna> i now have a non local participant in a group chat.
[23:32:38] <luna> i still can't seem to join open_chat@conference.igniterealtime.org - but i guess i don't know that that's not a coincidence.
[23:33:24] <luna> i can't use my discovery browser against igniterealtime.org though either, and the remote participant in my group chat can't use their discovery browser against my domain either still.