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[08:09:54] <test> not working anymore?
[08:13:44] <Kev> What isn't working anymore?
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[12:49:39] <Kev> I'll be submitting http://doomsong.co.uk/extensions/render/fmuc.html shortly, if anyone has comments to make before it goes to Council.
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[14:25:59] <dwd> Kev, Not sure I like the colour scheme.
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[21:07:37] <justin> has there been any thought about MUCs being aware of participant IP addresses?
[21:12:56] <Kev> Yes.
[21:13:02] <Kev> There was discussion of this some time ago.
[21:16:58] <justin> one idea i have is the MUC could perform an iq-get to the user's bare jid to retrieve this information, similar to how it might discover if the user is anonymous
[21:20:16] <justin> it's not perfect for tying stanzas to IPs, since IP addresses could change during a client session (bosh, xep-198 resume)
[21:20:41] <justin> only solve for that would be to put the IP address in every single stanza
[21:22:47] <Tobias> what do you need it for anyway? banning?
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[21:25:38] <justin> hmm
[21:26:24] <justin> most honest answer is i'm not fully sure, and this is more about customer request (and they are always right, or..?)
[21:26:42] <justin> i think it would find use in running messages through akismet or such
[21:27:08] <justin> or analytics of participant geolocation
[21:28:40] <Tobias> ah, yeah, that's some kind of useful
[21:28:48] <justin> currently we trust our client to send its own IP address in every stanza, and then this value makes it all the way to the end customer (specifically, it goes into their Wordpress database along with the comment)
[21:29:23] <justin> we didn't do this at first, and people installing livefyre were quick to notice IPs were missing in their WP admin area
[21:29:32] <Tobias> the IP goes into the db?
[21:29:35] <justin> yeah
[21:29:38] <Tobias> forever?
[21:29:47] <justin> yep. it's the IP that was used to post that comment
[21:29:52] <Tobias> aha, okay
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[23:07:51] <luna> hi. regarding bosh - as i understand it, it's intended (perhaps among other things) to solve the problem where a client is not able to maintain a long lived tcp connection to a server. i'm wondering in what real world example that might be the case?
[23:11:22] <justin> it was made for constrained environments, where tcp may not be allowed
[23:11:47] <justin> maybe a mobile device only has an http api, but no tcp api. or, maybe you're on a corporate network and all network communication must go through an http proxy
[23:13:39] <luna> i see. it's sort of weird to think of http being allowed, but not tcp, since http rides on top of tcp.
[23:14:09] <luna> but - from the perspective of an api, it makes more sense.
[23:14:49] <luna> the corporate network example raises a few questions though, i'd think.
[23:14:53] <justin> the browser is a good example of an api restraint. bosh javascript clients are popular
[23:15:05] <luna> ah
[23:15:43] <justin> restricted networks are not uncommon. there always seems to be someone stuck beyond a darn http proxy...
[23:16:11] <justin> beyond->behind
[23:16:30] <luna> no it's not that they're uncommon at all. i totally agree. quite common. but the network owner set the network up the way they wanted, you know?
[23:17:24] <justin> ah yes i see what you mean
[23:17:28] <Florob> well, it's not like there is no ICQ to go, or the next best non bosh AJAX based web-chat anyway
[23:17:29] <luna> my experience has been that traffic is restricted to a http (and possibly a proxy) not because the network owner wants all raffic to use the proxy but because they want only web browsing.
[23:17:43] <luna> *to http
[23:18:01] <justin> using http for non-web-browsing just to get through a proxy is subverting the network policy
[23:18:21] <justin> which is indeed a strange thing to promote
[23:18:31] <luna> (but i don't mean to bring up a contentious subject)
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[23:19:13] <luna> yeah, my thoughts too. i'm not necessarily for or against it either way, but just was looking for some practical insight.
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[23:21:34] <Florob> luna, right now there is definitely also a point to the "unable to maintain long lived tcp connections" part. E.g. mobiles tend to have that problem when they don't have a cell nearby for a short time. [xep 198] is supposed to fix that over tcp though.
[23:21:35] <Kanchil> Florob: XEP-0198: Stream Management is Standards Track (Draft, 2010-03-05) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0198.html
[23:22:23] <luna> the api example also might raise some concepts too. it's kind of a bummer, in some aspects, that there is sometimes a lot of accommodation in cases like that - where perhaps a vendor implements only a subset of a larger concept, shifting the load off of themselves to deal with the necessities for use
[23:22:49] <luna> Florob: actually, i wondered about that. what might be considered "a short time"?
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[23:24:34] <Florob> luna, Philosophic question ;) I'd say <5-10min.
[23:25:08] <luna> sure, of course :)
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[23:32:08] <luna> i've read that bosh "uses multiple synchronous HTTP request/response pairs". i don't quite understand what synchronous means, in that context. what is synchronous with what?
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[23:38:02] <luna> oh. i see, i think. it means discrete http connections at the same time, both serving the same larger bosh "session"?
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[23:38:35] <luna> err - s/both/all/
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[23:45:29] <luna> oh. reading a bit further in xep 124, it looks like it is actually two. :)
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